LockedWhat is traxlok?

Post
mudlite
Trail Rider
2005/08/25 12:22:31
Ive been curious of what traxlok is. Is it a limited slip front differential? What tire does it give power to? and does anyone ever find them selves hung up with one front tire in the air which is the only one spinning?
BaddB
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 12:43:39
Traxlock is where you can put the ATV into 2x4 or 4x4. Yes it is a limited slip front differential. It give more power to the wheel that has no traction. And yea I get hung up alot cause the one tires in the air is spinning with the other one not doing anything, so it gives more little power to the one that is on the ground.
KSims1868
Super Swamper
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 14:07:05
I'll never understand a 4x4 system that allows power ONLY to the wheel that has NO traction. When someone can explain to me how that makes ANY sense in a 4x4 ATV (not car) I'll sleep better at night.
mudlite
Trail Rider
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 14:51:33
I always thought that that honda differential was a posotive traction set up that gave power to the tire with the most traction. I want to buy either a grizzly or a rincon and now that I know how that differential really is I think id rather have the grizzly with a locking diff.
04kodiak450
Trail Rider
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 15:19:01
Theres a very simple technique for getting the wheel on the ground to get traction. Just start squeesing the front brake lever. This ads a load to the tire up in the air, and the torque sensing differential will applie power to the one with traction.
It works, ive done it alot. This only works on a torque sensing diff...like on hondas, it wont work on kawis or suzis.
BaddB
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 15:20:26
I have both and IMO they both do great. Yes the Grizz will have more bit with the locker but nothing a lil working with a slip diff wont get you out of. And youll find out that you really wont use the diff as much as you think, at least I havent.
gsmornot
Super Swamper
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 15:28:24
I think it would get used more if it was automatic. The guys here that have the locking diffs dont use them much either. The feel its something for extreme cases and dont want to run it full time. The DGL is nice because its working all the time your in 4WD but easy to turn when in 2WD.
klx110rider
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 15:47:07
is there any way that u can take the front dif of a rancher at and put it on a rancher350
AkMudhunter
Mud Pro
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 16:02:03
Quote:

Theres a very simple technique for getting the wheel on the ground to get traction. Just start squeesing the front brake lever. This ads a load to the tire up in the air, and the torque sensing differential will applie power to the one with traction.
It works, ive done it alot. This only works on a torque sensing diff...like on hondas, it wont work on kawis or suzis.



Thanks for the tip 04KODIAK450, i wasn't aware of that little unknown fact, i haven't got stuck so bad that i couldn't get out but when it happens, i'll know what to do!!
KSims1868
Super Swamper
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 16:04:13
That whole "pull front brake" thing never really worked for me when I had my Foreman. Plus...being able to push a button when I need to (instead of fooling with feathering a brake lever) is MUCH easier and reliable.

To each his own though. If I were to ever buy another Honda...I'd invest in a DGL immediately!!
raveer2000
Outlaw
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 16:36:45
Quote:

Theres a very simple technique for getting the wheel on the ground to get traction. Just start squeesing the front brake lever. This ads a load to the tire up in the air, and the torque sensing differential will applie power to the one with traction.
It works, ive done it alot. This only works on a torque sensing diff...like on hondas, it wont work on kawis or suzis.




This works very well... Its not 100 percent but when you master the technique it can pull you out of a hole.
Jake450s
Moderator
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 18:54:30
Quote:

I'll never understand a 4x4 system that allows power ONLY to the wheel that has NO traction.




They don't do that at all. No driveline in any ATV will send more power to a free spinning wheel than a stuck one.

A standard "open" differential will always apply equal torque to both front wheels.

A clutch type limited slip differential will always send equal torque to both wheels, however if the speed differs between the wheels, the slower wheel will recieve equal torque as the faster wheel, plus a preset amount determined by the clutch preload inside the differential.

A torque biasing differential will "bias" torque to the slower wheel. The more one wheel slows compared to another, the higher percent of the available torque is sent to the slower wheel.
This is the type that the "brake trick" applies to. If one wheel is in the air, spinning with no resistance, then the maximum torque potential in that driveline becomes (very nearly) zero. By applying the front brake some, now that wheel has something to resist it's rotation, so torque can be applied. Once torque is applied at the least tractive point (the lifted tire), there is now torque in the driveline that is available to be "biased" towards the slower wheel.

A spool or a locking differential in the locked mode does not differentiate at all. There is no "biasing" or choosing. Each wheel simply rotates at the same speed, regardless of the torque that is or is not applied.
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 20:18:39
Quote:

Quote:

I'll never understand a 4x4 system that allows power ONLY to the wheel that has NO traction.




They don't do that at all. No driveline in any ATV will send more power to a free spinning wheel than a stuck one.

A standard "open" differential will always apply equal torque to both front wheels.

A clutch type limited slip differential will always send equal torque to both wheels, however if the speed differs between the wheels, the slower wheel will recieve equal torque as the faster wheel, plus a preset amount determined by the clutch preload inside the differential.

A torque biasing differential will "bias" torque to the slower wheel. The more one wheel slows compared to another, the higher percent of the available torque is sent to the slower wheel.
This is the type that the "brake trick" applies to. If one wheel is in the air, spinning with no resistance, then the maximum torque potential in that driveline becomes (very nearly) zero. By applying the front brake some, now that wheel has something to resist it's rotation, so torque can be applied. Once torque is applied at the least tractive point (the lifted tire), there is now torque in the driveline that is available to be "biased" towards the slower wheel.

A spool or a locking differential in the locked mode does not differentiate at all. There is no "biasing" or choosing. Each wheel simply rotates at the same speed, regardless of the torque that is or is not applied.




i dont agree with the first part that u said. how come if it sends equal power to the wheel in the air and the wheel on the ground how come when u apply throttle the wheel in hte air spins more and the wheel on the ground still does nothing. i hated my 3wd on my big bear. i wouldnt live withought my dgl
Guest
Outlaw Extremist
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 20:27:45
Quote:

Theres a very simple technique for getting the wheel on the ground to get traction. Just start squeesing the front brake lever. This ads a load to the tire up in the air, and the torque sensing differential will applie power to the one with traction.
It works, ive done it alot. This only works on a torque sensing diff...like on hondas, it wont work on kawis or suzis.




that is true only if you actually have front brakes to begin with. and when i had my rubicon with the disk break conversion, it worked sometimes, but was still never as good as a locked. right now, honda diffs will never be as good as a locking differential, unless you put an aftermarket locker in. on the other hand, like mentioned earlier, the locker is not needed a whole lot anyway.
ABfarmer
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/25 21:56:41
Bigbearkid4x4 , I know what Jake450s explained can often seem confusing if a guys not had a diff opened up and seen how it fuctions but believe me his statements are totally 100 % true .

Because the tire which is in the air takes such a minimal amount of effort to spin , that very minimal effort is transfered to the other front tire with traction . Since its an effort thats almost not worth talking about , that tire with traction can't begin to spin .

The principle works exactly the same for a vehicle with an open style diff .

Open diffs work great on flat ground with relatively high traction , but they don't lend themselves to use in marginal and uneven traction conditions such as you ride in with your quad .
KSims1868
Super Swamper
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 08:48:13
Quote:

They don't do that at all. No driveline in any ATV will send more power to a free spinning wheel than a stuck one.



You can make it sounds as technical as you want. Bottom line is...if you are riding a Honda and are stuck in 4wd you are NOT actually in 4wd...you have your rear wheels spinning and the front wheel with the LEAST traction spinning. That doesn't do any good, and that is the biggest flaw of ANY 4x4 ATV without a locker up front. IMO it is stupid to have the wheel with the least traction up front spinning and the one with traction not...that IS what a Honda 4x4 will do.
KSims1868
Super Swamper
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 17:05:00
Quote:

KSims1868

Why do you hang out in the Honda forum and **** and moan about Hondas? You have obviously owned one and you were obviously unhappy with it and you have obviously moved on to something else. So why hang around and make the rest of us read your complaints? Go to the Yamaha forum and talk about how great your Grizzly is and how much better it is than Hondas. We don't care, but when your in our (Honda Owners) forum, it's pretty annoying.




Your post isn't totally accurate, but I'll answer you anyways. I hang out here continueing to discuss Hondas with other Honda owners because I actually expect to own another one some day. I'm not a Honda Hater...and I wasn't "unhappy" with my Foreman. If you pull up my posts here in the Honda forum you'll find several times I've give praises to Honda for the uses it excells at and I will continue to do so.

When someone asks a question I have experience with...I will offer it. That experience might be negative and it might be positive.

If someone asks about what a Foreman or Rincon is lacking, and if they should consider other options...I will add my honest opinion.

That shouldn't be annoying unless you just don't like hearing any negative experiences with Hondas. That wouldn't really be fair to the person asking the question would it?
MuddnMason
Administrator
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 17:11:24
KSims, you are absolutely correct. I highly respect your opinions cause I know that you have actual experience. I agree with you one hundred percent that the 3wd setup on the Honda's is just about completely useless for mudding, compared to a quad with a fully locked diff. To me, this is the one thing that Honda desperately needs.
Bull 450S
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 17:29:09
Honda keeps that front diff just the way it is because it is reliable and effective for the needs of propably over 80% of the market. For the extreme mudders it is lacking, but extreme mudders will do what is necessary to overcome the short comings of a stock Honda or any stock machine for that matter. If Honda changes the front diff the cost will go up even higher and may not gain Honda any market share because people will buy Honda with or without the locked front end. Same goes for the drum brakes. Look how long they waited to add those to the Foreman.

With sales consistant over time, I sure Honda's stance is "don't fix it if it aint broke".
AkMudhunter
Mud Pro
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 17:41:51
Quote:

KSims, you are absolutely correct. I highly respect your opinions cause I know that you have actual experience. I agree with you one hundred percent that the 3wd setup on the Honda's is just about completely useless for mudding, compared to a quad with a fully locked diff. To me, this is the one thing that Honda desperately needs.




Honda doesn't need to add more useless stuff to their atv's, all that will do is raise the price and add more problems. I've read a lot of posts that say it's nice to have a locking diff but not neccessary, so why bother. If you want a locking diff, then buy an aftermarket one. My Foreman does the job i need it to do and is a blast to ride, but it could use a little bit better suspension and a little more clearance. I'll fix this myself by adding aftermarket parts, not a problem at all! Well, thats just Good riding to you all!
Jake450s
Moderator
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 19:33:24
Quote:

...You can make it sounds as technical as you want...




Actually, that's as "un" technical of a description as you are going to find anywhere.



Quote:

if you are riding a Honda and are stuck in 4wd you are NOT actually in 4wd




If anything short of a fully locked differential isn't adequate for your use, that may be so, but you seem to have missed a big part of the basic idea of the workings of a differential however, as you are till confusing motion with power. That wheel that is spinning is still recieving absolutely no more power than the one that is stationary or is slower.
MuddnMason
Administrator
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 21:04:08
Quote:

Honda doesn't need to add more useless stuff to their atv's, all that will do is raise the price and add more problems. I've read a lot of posts that say it's nice to have a locking diff but not neccessary, so why bother. If you want a locking diff, then buy an aftermarket one. My Foreman does the job i need it to do and is a blast to ride, but it could use a little bit better suspension and a little more clearance. I'll fix this myself by adding aftermarket parts, not a problem at all! Well, thats just Good riding to you all!




I am just saying that a locking diff would be an awesome option for Honda to offer, like most other manufacturers. The benefits of having a locker there when you need it, whether it be for mudding or rock climbing or whatever would be nice. Especially not having to add an aftermarket.

Guys I didnt mean to stir up a hornets nest with that post!! Just saying that a locker *should* be an available factory option.
Guest
Outlaw Extremist
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 21:28:45
the 2 main reasons i hear people say why honda doesnt put a locker on their atvs:
1. honda reliablility
2. people dont really need a locker

well, i have a question for you that say this.
1. if ALL the other manufactures have lockers, and nobody ever uses them, would that give them the honda reliability that you all brag about?
2. if honda atvs and their users dont really need a locker, then why is it that all the other brands and their users need one?
Guest
Outlaw Extremist
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 21:40:38
I also have a question. If a diff-lock equipped ATV breaks an axle in the woods and no Honda owner is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Guest
Outlaw Extremist
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/26 21:54:16
Quote:

I also have a question. If a diff-lock equipped ATV breaks an axle in the woods and there is no Honda owner around, does it make a sound?




of course, because they are all to real
Ultratec
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/27 07:08:05
Quote:

I also have a question. If a diff-lock equipped ATV breaks an axle in the woods and no Honda owner is around to hear it, does it make a sound?


ivangalt
Trail Rider
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/27 08:26:24
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential3.htm

There's animation on the link that will show interested parties why Jake450s is correct.

howstuffworks could not answer ATVtech's question.
ABfarmer
Mud Master
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/27 12:46:15
ATVtech does pose a perplexing question

My thought is that even if there was no sound , because a honda owner didn't hear it , surely there would be sounds coming out of the mouth of the unfortunate victom sitting there with oily diff parts in his hands ! { children cover your ears }.

ivangalt , thankyou for finding that information as its way easier to show a moving picture vs trying to explain the inner workings of an open style diff .
MuddnMason
Administrator
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/27 13:18:39
Excellent site Ivangalt!
ivangalt
Trail Rider
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/27 15:24:34
My pleasure, guys. I love that site too.
SwampWiseMudder
Trail Rider
Re: What is traxlok? 2005/08/27 22:51:33
That is a good link. This applies to Honda's with TraxLok:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential10.htm

Also it states how the Front Brake Trick works:

The HMMVV, or Hummer, uses Torsen differentials on the front and rear axles. The owner's manual for the Hummer proposes a novel solution to the problem of one wheel coming off the ground: Apply the brakes. By applying the brakes, torque is applied to the wheel that is in the air, and then five times that torque can go to the wheel with good traction.