Helpful ReplyHot!That didn't last long

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dmanMus
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2017/04/30 14:28:43 (permalink)

That didn't last long

Ok. Well I was at mudfest this past weekend on the new bike and the line for the crank vent popped off the air box. Filled the whole thing with water and didn't notice it til an hour later. The motor is f***ked. Only had 10hours on the bike. 2017 rancher 420 4x4. So. What are my options? Complete rebuild kit? Buy new motor? Build the motor? Warranty ain't gonna do anything so I'm coming out of pocket

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
#1
00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/04/30 14:59:10 (permalink)
Just rebuild it. New motor is gonna cost!!!!!! Feel your pain homie!!!!

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#2
dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/04/30 16:54:37 (permalink)
What's you're best recommendation? I was thinking doing the 455bbk. But I gotta do bottom end also

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
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00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/04/30 21:20:32 (permalink)
I'd do a gear reduction before a bbk. It's the best bang for the buck. As long as the cylinder isn't destroyed I'd bore up one size.

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#4
doveman1
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/01 07:43:14 (permalink)
Agreed!

Green 2015 Grizzly 700
14in Sti Hd wheels, 29.5 OL2's 


 If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough.
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Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/01 10:03:58 (permalink)
500 cylinder from a 2012-2013 Foreman is bolt on.  If you want more CC's use bolt on Honda parts.
 
I put one on my wife's 09 420FA, and looks like the cylinders are all the same from 09-16 (not sure about 17)
 
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-12100-HP7-A00.html
 
(That's the link showing all the models that use that particular 420 cylinder, and since all of them use the same cylinder, it only makes sense that a 500 cylinder that fits an 09 FA would also fit all the other models listed)
 
420 motors aren't hard.  All you need to do is tear yours down, clean everything out, and put it back together.
 
If you ran it long enough to ruin the crank that's gonna cost you, but other than that clean it out, slap a new top end on it, and run it.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUSG5ChP0TE
post edited by Jeepwm69 - 2017/05/01 10:08:35
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dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/01 17:15:12 (permalink)
Well. I was riding for a good 2 hours after filling the whole crank case with muddy water before I realized that line was off. I didn't notice til the bike started knocking. Shaking and blowing smoke like crazy. Did 3 oil changes and kept riding the rest of the weekend. Still sounds absolutely horrible

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
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dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/01 17:16:25 (permalink)
And I'm already doing a gear reduction. But I gotta rebuild the motor now so I wanna make more power

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
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00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/01 18:28:33 (permalink)
They way I look at it is it's a 420. The upgrades to the top end will not make that big of a difference. The 500 cylinder upgrade like Jeepwm said would be the best as it all factory parts. A gear reduction is still the best bet but since your top end is bad you might as well upgrade. At the end of the day if you want to turn bigger tires or not struggle through a hole just buy a bigger bike. I roll my 300 and I have a 54% with the 317 kit and I love it but I know it's no 500 and will never expect it to be. My bike has all stock Honda parts in it except for the GR. So listen to Jeepwm and do the 500 cylinder and it will make you a very reliable motor with all factory parts.
post edited by 00_NUTT - 2017/05/01 18:30:56

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#9
dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/02 00:44:46 (permalink)
I'm not arguing on the 500 top end. That was Munich other option. It was either that or the bbk. Not going back to the stock 420 top end. As far as bottom end. What are my options? I'm pretty sure I gotta change that out to as the only thing that got flooded was bottoms end. The mud water went straight there first and pretty much kept filling cause I was stopped stuck in a hole for a good 5 minutes running my bike and then after that hole drove for another hour before realizing what had happened. The whole bike sounds terrible

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
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00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/02 06:23:02 (permalink)
Man if you have the skills do like Jeepwm said and tear the bottom end down. Split the case and see exactly what damage is done. That is the only way for you to know and to know exactly what you have when your done putting it back together. The other option is to start checking eBay, Facebook, and atv scrap yards for either a whole good motor or a good bottom end. They are out there but you have to look.

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#11
Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/02 10:35:03 (permalink)
Pull the motor, pull the top end, and see if you have play in the crank.  If you don't have play in the crank, all you need to do to the bottom end is clean it out good and put it back together. 
 
If you have play in the crank, you gotta buy a new crank.  Little back and forth play in the crank is ok.  Any up and down play you're bottom crank bearing is gone and you gotta replace it.
 
Even with a new crank, you're better off fixing it yourself than buying a used motor that may or may not have been sunk too. 
 
These 420 motors are easy.  I've torn two down in the last two weeks.  One had a bent shift fork in the transmission, the other had a bad crank.  Watch that video I linked above and it walks you through it.  It's not rocket science.  These Honda motors are pretty simply (which is why they are reliable).  If you get stuck, come on here and ask what to do. 
 
Just keep everything together as you remove it, so you know where it goes when you're putting it back together.  I remove top end and put it all together.  Then remove front cover, clutches, timing chain, cam, shift linkage and put it all together, then remove back cover, secondary gears, and put all that together. 
 
If you don't have to replace the crank you can leave the flywheel on and just split the cases, clean everything out good, and bolt it right back together. 
 
I use starter fluid from Walmart to clean cases.  $2.42/can and usually takes 5-6 cans to clean out a bottom end good.   The aerosol has decent pressure and the starter fluid dissolves the gunk and doesn't leave a residue.
 
Getting the motor out is harder than going through it. 
#12
Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/02 10:37:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby lowbudget 2017/05/03 09:19:03
For the record, I'm 41, work in finance and HR, and never owned or worked on an ATV till 2009.   I'm not a mechanic.
 
I sank my 09 Foreman in 2011(ish) and rebuilt the motor using the interwebs. 
 
With the internet, if you have a question the answer is only a google search away.
 
Honda motors are like legos for adults.  Take it apart, clean it, inspect any parts for damage, and put it back together.
 
If you screw it up you're only out a little time.
 
My local Honda shop charges $100/ hour, so yeah, I learned to do it myself.
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dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/03 00:04:16 (permalink)
I really like to upgrade everything when I replace it. So top end wise. I'm doing foreman 500. Bottom end. Is there upgraded cams? Cranks? Anything like that for these motors? I've been out the game a long time. I'm mechanically inclined. I work on diesels

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
#14
dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/03 00:06:17 (permalink)
And also I don't like to take chances. I'd rather do both top and bottom end now than risk I bottom end having just tiny bit of damage and have to do it later ya know

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
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Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/03 09:56:01 (permalink)
I'm sure there are all kinds of things you can do for $$$$, but Honda single cylinder engines you aren't going to get much bang for your buck on mods.  You call crankworks and talk to them about what all they can do with the crank, but it's gonna cost you $$$$
 
Put a 2012-2013 500 cylinder/piston on it, do a gear reduction, and call it good. 

If you want more than that you're better off buying a big bore bike.
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dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/03 14:28:16 (permalink)
Why not a 2014-17 foreman 500? Is it different?

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
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00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/03 21:41:06 (permalink)
Jeepwm69
I'm sure there are all kinds of things you can do for $$$$, but Honda single cylinder engines you aren't going to get much bang for your buck on mods.  You call crankworks and talk to them about what all they can do with the crank, but it's gonna cost you $$$$
 
Put a 2012-2013 500 cylinder/piston on it, do a gear reduction, and call it good. 

If you want more than that you're better off buying a big bore bike.


AGREED!!!!

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#18
Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/04 09:40:17 (permalink)
dmanMus
Why not a 2014-17 foreman 500? Is it different?



Yep 
 
I'm running a 2012-2013 500 cylinder on an 09 420AT, so I knew that would work on a 420 bottom end.
 
Looks like the 500 cylinders are unchanged since 2012.  Same part.
 
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-12100-HR0-F00.html
 
 
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Honda350Rancher
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/04 20:20:34 (permalink)
Would it be best if switch out my 350 engine on my 2000 Honda rancher 350 to a 420
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00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/04 20:47:01 (permalink)
Better learn your wiring cause the harnesses are different.

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#21
Honda350Rancher
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/05 06:44:13 (permalink)
I already know the wiring harness's but would it be best to switch the engines out
#22
00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/05 12:01:08 (permalink)
Man at the end of the day if your wanting more power and want to turn bigger tires just go find a bigger bike. The 420 as a whole is very reliable. So get yours running and sell it and go buy another bike. Your gonna have to make motor mounts and pray the drive lines match up along with shafts. That's why I keep saying GR!!! Plus finding a good 420 motor cheap is gonna be fun. I have been all up and down where your at and after all the money I spent I bought a gear reduction and used factory parts to upgrade my top end.

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#23
dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/05 19:08:40 (permalink)
Well I'm already doing a gear reduction no matter what. So that battle is won. So just doing a foreman 500 top end and a new crank. So the 17 500 will fit?

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
#24
00_NUTT
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/05 20:13:21 (permalink)
Yup from what Jeepwm has found.

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#25
Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/08 09:59:15 (permalink)
2017 500 cylinder is 12100-HR0-F00
 
http://www.powersportsdiscount.com/oemparts/a/hon/577be8ea87a8661304d667b4/cylinder
 
Same as 09-16
 
 
#26
dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/08 13:51:17 (permalink)
So what are all the parts I need for the top end swap? So I can order the right stuff

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
#27
Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/08 15:58:28 (permalink)
Cylinder, std piston, std rings, pin, circlips, top end gaskets.
 
If you email Paulie at Honda East Toledo he's about as cheap as you're going to find.  Just tell him what you're doing and he'll put it together for you.
 
I get all my OEM parts from him.  Good guy, and cheaper than anybody else, including partzilla.
 
Paulie@hondaeasttoledo.com is his email.
#28
dmanMus
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/09 19:12:54 (permalink)
Thank you so much Jeepwm69

2012 Honda Foreman 500 (SOLD)
2007 Honda Rancher 420 (SOLD)
2005 Honda Recon 250 (SOLD)
#29
Jeepwm69
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Re: That didn't last long 2017/05/10 09:17:59 (permalink)
Glad to help. 
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