LockedArctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2

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sinister1ca
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2008/08/04 10:38:56 (permalink)

Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2

I'm new to the world of atv's, read about them for years, always new I would get one. Almost bought a 650 Brute force, but felt i needed a 2 rider atv. So I got  08 Arctic cat 650 h1 TRV, I know the same motor that is in the brute force is in the h2 what motor is the more superior. not that I had a choice going with the TRV, Just wondering.
 
 
08 Arctic cat 650 H1 TRV
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    Jake450s
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/04 13:47:26 (permalink)
    That's a very subjective question with multiple answers, they're both good engines but with some differences, like any two other engines out there.  The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.  You've got a nice ATV, enjoy it with no regrets.

    .02
    #2
    SkintBak
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/04 15:01:44 (permalink)
    I thought the only h2 was in the thundercat.  Anything that AC makes with an h1 behind it is an Arctic Cat engine, not a suzuki or kawasaki.

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    #3
    GWC
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/04 20:42:25 (permalink)
    Yes AC put a 650 kawie (not a H2) motor in the cats for 3 year and they are pretty equal in power with a 650H1 stock to stock but the 650 Twin of the Kawie can be made to be alot faster.

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    #4
    sinister1ca
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/05 14:39:04 (permalink)
    Here in Nova Scotia it was advertized as H2 got lots of canadian mags to prove it.
     
    #5
    GWC
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/05 16:50:59 (permalink)
    Huh never heard it called a H2 before untill the 650H1 single came out then i have heard a few people call it that. guess i will not tell anyone its not called a H2 anymore..lol

    08 650H1 L.E.
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    #6
    sinister1ca
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/05 17:03:13 (permalink)
     Maybe just called that in Canada, We never got any Kawasaki's called praries, just KVF, now Brute force. Also had a Canadian trail edition of the Honda Rubicon, that was not avail in the states.
    #7
    LiveForMud
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/05 17:10:35 (permalink)
    the cats from 2004-2006 with the 650 kawi motor was called the "V2" for v-twin. arctic cat uses the "H2" callsign for the 950 v-twin in the thundercat and the H1 for the AC single cylinder 650 and 700 engines of theirs.

    i think it was in either '06 or '07 that kawi revamped the 650 and now it makes a good bit more power than the old prarie 650 (which is what was in the 04-06 V2 cats).

    i gave a pretty good comparison of the prarie-version of the kawi 650 V2 versus the AC 650 H1 in a post a while back (seen below). this post was more specifically for comparing the AC 650 V2 (04-06 models) versus the AC 650 H1 (05+).

    but in a nutshell, the kawi engine makes superior power with mods, but the cat will have the better belt system (and cat's new bevel gears make the secondary bulletproof) and front differential. both have VERY similar gearing. so mud performance will be very similar... the kawi will just get through the pit a bit faster when you open that v-twin up.

    http://www.highlifter.com/forum/m_2749241/mpage_1/key_reduction/tm.htm#2749313


    From a geometry standpoint, they're equal (ground clearance, suspension, weight, etc). The H1 has the better transmission since it uses a constant-tension belt with an internal wet clutch (the best, most durable kind of belt drive), while the kawi uses the old grab-n-go type system which is much more suseptible to slipping and burning the belt. But the V2 has a little more power stock, and a TON more power when modded since there's a huge aftermarket for this motor (up to 916cc big bore strokers!).

    Now, keep in mind that the prairie/brute 650s and 750s are geared almost identical to the cat 500 auto and H1, except that the kawis use very low 4.38 differential gears to achieve their gear ratios, while the cat/suzuki engines use lower transmission gearing and taller 3.6 differential gears. The problem with the kawi 650 in the cat frame is that cat doesn't offer deeper differential gears to give it the same overall gear ratios that kawi intended it to have. and since the V2 uses the grab-n-go style trans, it doesn't grip the belt strong enough for the taller axle gears of the cat (lower trans/axle gears take stress off of the belt). I'll show this in the next few bits of info:

    ___________________________________________
    Arctic Cat 650 H1 (37hp)
    Primary (V-belt): 2.876 - 0.703
    Secondary: 2.562 (41/16)
    Final:  3.6 (36/10)

    Range Reduction                     (Overall)
    High:  1.200 (30/25)             (31.831 - 7.781)
    Low:   2.500 (40/16)             (66.315 - 16.210)
    Rev:   2.000 (28/16x32/28)    (53.052 - 12.968)

    With 4.0s, the H1's gearing looks like this:
    Range Reduction                     (Overall)
    High:  1.200 (30/25)             (35.368 - 8.646)
    Low:   2.500 (40/16)             (73.683 - 18.011)
    Rev:   2.000 (28/16x32/28)    (58.947 - 14.409)
    __________________________________________


    Arctic Cat 650 V2 (40hp)
    Primary reduction (V-belt):  3.122 - 0.635
    Final drive ratio  3.6 (36/10) [2004-2005]
     
    Range     Reduction
    High:  3.098 (30/26 x 29/18 x 20/12)
    Low:   4.833 (36/20 x 29/18 x 20/12)
    Rev:   4.028 (16/12 X 18/16 X 29/18 X 20/12)

    Overall Ratios
    High:  34.819 - 7.082
    Low:   54.319 - 11.048 (<- the reason you can go 45+mph in low)
    Rev:    45.271 - 9.208

    With 4.0 gears (stock on 2006 V2s)
    Overall Ratios
    High:  38.688 - 7.869
    Low:   60.354 - 12.276
    Rev:    50.301 - 10.231
    __________________________________________

    And so you can see how kawasaki intended the V2 to be geared, here's the kawi gears:

    Prairie/Brute Force 650/750
    Primary reduction (V-belt):  3.122 - 0.635
    Final drive ratio  4.375 (35/8)
     
    Range     Reduction
    High:  3.098 (30/26 x 29/18 x 20/12)
    Low:   4.833 (36/20 x 29/18 x 20/12)
    Rev:   4.028 (16/12 X 18/16 X 29/18 X 20/12)

    Overall Ratios
    High:  42.315-8.607
    Low:   66.013-21.761
    Rev:     55.017-11.190
    __________________________________________

    The 2004 and 2005 cat V2s had the 3.6 gears, which you can see makes for a meager gear range (it's still geared better than the grizzly 660/700 and KQ 700/750, but the V2s belt setup can't handle this gearing very well). so even when the V2 has 4.0s, the H1 still has a good 10% advantage in gearing in low range and 8% advantage in reverse. Stick 4.0s in the H1 and the H1 jumps ahead by a lot.

    However, there are a couple of gear reductions (secondary gear set) for the kawi motors. the kawi V2 stock secondary is a 1.667:1 reduction (20/12), while the secondary out of a teryx is 1.909:1 (21/11), which is a 14.5% reduction (see this thread for more info: http://www.highlifter.com/forum/m_2692677/mpage_1/tm.htm ). the other reduction is a fully custom cut set from a guy in germany, who posts on here as richardulc42 and he said it takes the secondary from 1.667 (20/12) down to 2:1 (20/10), for a 20% reduction.... http://www.highlifter.com/forum/m_1845257/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1849613  http://www.highlifter.com/forum/m_1845257/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1850050 .

    so, if you were to put 4.0s and the teryx 14.5% reduction in the cat V2, you'll wind up with neary close to the gearing of a stock H1 (actually a slight bit lower). put 4.0s and richard's 20% reduction in the V2, you'll have almost identical gearing to an H1 with 4.0s (H1 w/4.0s = 73.683 low starting ratio, V2 w/4.0s & richard's 20% = 72.425 low starting ratio).

    the V2 will always sound better with a pipe, will pretty much will always have more power, and with the available reductions, can be geared pretty much just like the H1 with 4.0s. but the H1 will always have the better belt system and the engine won't self destruct the 1st time you drown it out (the kawi V2s are hideous when drowned out).

    hope this helps...


    #8
    FAR-FROM-STOCK
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/07 10:50:44 (permalink)
    nice write up [;)]

     
     
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    Dirtbmw20
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/07 12:14:55 (permalink)
    Excellent write up LiveForMud.

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    badtothebonehonda
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/07 21:34:39 (permalink)
    this is for all your articat lovers  
     
     
    1 hondas are gear to gear no belts
     
    2 500s hav pull starts none of the articats due
     
    3 articats batterys die after  being left out[&:]

    all hondas rule!
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    badtothebonehonda
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/07 21:40:03 (permalink)
    i told u guys hondas rule[sm=brutal_36.gif][sm=nopics.gif]

    all hondas rule!
    #12
    GWC
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/07 21:57:43 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: badtothebonehonda

    this is for all your articat lovers  


    1 hondas are gear to gear no belts

    2 500s hav pull starts none of the articats due

    3 articats batterys die after  being left out[&:]

     
     
    What does any of this have tio do with this thread..?  [&:]
     
    1. my AC 500m has no belt.
     
    2. It has a pull start..
     
    3. it has the same battery in it sence it was bought in 05.

    08 650H1 L.E.
    LimeGreen/Black, Rad racked, Dual 3" snorkels
    Custom 2.5" lift & MP shocks front,Polaris shocks
    Custom tie rods ;
    11:1 Wisco & WebCam 417, Dynatech CDI,AMR racing coil,Dyno jet kit
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    Custom gauges & some Limegreen Strobes
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    #13
    Lawnboy1988
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/07 22:09:58 (permalink)
    lol pwned!

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    BLACKCATT
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/08 13:16:30 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: GWC

    ORIGINAL: badtothebonehonda

    this is for all your articat lovers  


    1 hondas are gear to gear no belts

    2 500s hav pull starts none of the articats due

    3 articats batterys die after  being left out[&:]



    What does any of this have tio do with this thread..?  [&:]

    1. my AC 500m has no belt.

    2. It has a pull start..

    3. it has the same battery in it sence it was bought in 05.

     
    Ditto!!!!!!!! [:D]
     
    My 05' 650 H1 has...
     
    1. A belt... I will never go back to manual!
    2. A pull rope.
    3. The original battery from 05'

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    #15
    MudCrawler
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/08 14:04:05 (permalink)
    My 2003 500 is the same way.  Well not the battery thanks to a 3 year old.

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    #16
    bulldogmech77535
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/11 16:49:45 (permalink)
    My 06' still has a pull rope,  but with all the compression I have never  been able to start it with the rope.....  and atv batteries do not last on any quad...
    #17
    4man0822
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/11 17:23:34 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Lawnboy1988

    lol pwned!

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    07bayoukitty
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    RE: Arctic cat 650 h1 vs Arctic cat 650 h2 2008/08/11 17:25:03 (permalink)
    the only pull rope i ever needed was to pull honda.[:D][:'(]

    07 650 h1 29.5" laws custom snorkle more mods coming 00 500m 28" 589's custom 2" lift
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