Hot!420 bottom end swap on foreman 500

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/08/29 20:14:43 (permalink)
Put the meter up to it with key turned at rest green/yellow wire on coil is @12v
Black/red wire @12v

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/08/30 09:03:18 (permalink)
Hmmmm.  You a member on hondaatvforums?  Melatv is the 420/electrical guru over there.  He walked me through troubleshooting my 420's.
 
There's a link at the bottom of the first post that has free PDF"s of factory service manuals.  There should be a troubleshooting section in the ignition section (21-4 on my Rancher AT manual I have downloaded).
 
http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/honda-atv-schematics-manual-help/50817-service-manual-downloads.html
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/08/31 21:53:18 (permalink)
Ok put the coil on my other fourwheeler (420) sparked so if my coils good and I'm getting power to my coil what could it be?

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/01 09:46:08 (permalink)
So you have no spark on the 500, but you're getting spark using that coil on the 420...
 
You've run a jumper from + on battery to the red/black wire on the coil and still no start?
 
Kill switch in the run position?
 
 
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/01 18:58:13 (permalink)
Yea I did that, and it turns over if the kill switch is bad it will not let it turn over. Do you think its Cdi or wiring harness

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/02 09:53:35 (permalink)
Man I dunno.  Is your fuel pump initializing, temp and FI lights coming on for second, and IACV buzzing when you turn the key on?  (does it act like it's initializing?)
 
Electrical shouldn't have anything to do with the new bottom end, but I've never seen one that wouldn't fire by jumping + to the coil.  That usually bypasses all the relays and crap.
 
 
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/02 19:55:22 (permalink)
I guess I'll try that again

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/02 22:05:55 (permalink)
I just ran a jumper straight to black and red with green plugged in and pushing the starter, then I put a jumper wire where the green is and tried it 100% hard wired.

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/02 22:07:39 (permalink)
Does anyone know what the green/yellow wire is for? Also after doing this I felt Cdi box and it was warm

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/03 13:05:19 (permalink)
Stator?

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/07 11:27:13 (permalink)
Try asking this guy. 
 
http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/members/melatv.html
 
He's walked me through the nightmare that is these EFI electronics.
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/14 14:58:24 (permalink)
Any progress?
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/14 20:01:42 (permalink)
Can't get spark, I'm thinking its the stator which means I'm gonna have to pull that motor again🙄

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/09/16 10:05:18 (permalink)
I had to pull the wife's 420 AT motor and split the cases on it after getting it installed.  Shift forks/drum were binding.
 
Then I did a neighbors 350ES, and the SAME **** THING happened.  Had to pull the motor again, split cases.
 
That said, look at these before you go pulling the motor.  The Rancher troubleshooting should work for a 2012-2013 Foreman.
 
http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/honda-rancher/43080-no-spark-09-rancher-420-a.html
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/11/24 12:02:39 (permalink)
I think I finally figured out why I might not be getting spark, the motor is a 420 bottom end with 500 head, but the alternator/stator cover is off of a 500...
Take a look

This is my motor, note 420 flywheel and bottom end


This is my old 500 bottom end


So this tells me the fly wheels are different and it would have worked if I had the 420 alternator cover because the sensor would be making contact with flywheel..

Any body can confirm?
And would it be feasible to swap flywheels or just get a 420 cover

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/11/24 16:21:40 (permalink)
I'd try swapping the flywheel. Easy to swap, aleady have the parts, and the cranks are the same on the 420 and 500 so you know it will fit.
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/11 17:17:34 (permalink)
I went to take the foreman flywheel off with the "remover tool" made by tusk and it didn't budge ended up stripping the threads in the flywheel am I doing something wrong?

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/11 17:38:12 (permalink)
Did you screw it into the flywheel and then hit it with an impact?
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/11 20:01:52 (permalink)
I screw mine in until tight. Then hit with a hammer and tighten again over and over till it comes off.

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/12 06:55:27 (permalink)
Yep I screwed it in by hand than put the matco impact on it boom threads were gone

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/12 07:24:29 (permalink)
You sure it was the right thread pitch on the tool? I've never had problems with a flywheel coming off, use a cheap motionpro screw/ puller
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/12 12:13:44 (permalink)
Yes it was definitely the correct tool it threaded perfectly just it was on there and had no match against the matco, it took some time but it eventually stripped, I noticed if I tightened it down until it stopped spinning, then backed it off, and kept repeating the process it helped but still it was ON THERE

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/12 13:09:17 (permalink)
Okay so looking farther into it I found out the key on my crankshaft was off... the flywheel had completely twisted over a quarter of a turn, that's why it was giving me such a hard time (keep in mind this was the blown motor)
So looks like I'll be ordering a new flywheel, anyone know where I can get one cheap?

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/12 14:18:25 (permalink)
Dang brother you keep finding one thing after another. Hopefully this is it and the rest will be history and you be rolling down the road on it finally. I always use partzilla for new parts. Used parts check ebay or Google atv salvage yards and see what they got.

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/13 13:17:31 (permalink)
I shoot rooster tails
Okay so looking farther into it I found out the key on my crankshaft was off... the flywheel had completely twisted over a quarter of a turn, that's why it was giving me such a hard time (keep in mind this was the blown motor)
So looks like I'll be ordering a new flywheel, anyone know where I can get one cheap?

Daaaaaaanggg. That's some serious carnage there!
 
That flywheel is $230 on Honda East's site, and is a 2012-2013 Foreman only part.
 
http://www.powersportsdiscount.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053df9cf870021c54bdf71d/generator
 
What about using the flywheel and rear cover from the 420?  Not compatible?
 
I use powersportsnation for some used parts.  They aren't cheap but will stand behind what they sell.  They might have one.
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/14 06:12:30 (permalink)
The 420 cover had a hole in it, it was a wrecked bike that I got the motor from, I actually just got lucky and found a complete flywheel for 30$ on ebay

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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2016/12/14 16:05:46 (permalink)
Freaking Sweet!!!!!!!!!

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2017/05/02 17:16:36 (permalink)
okay boys, most of y'all that were here for the beginning of my journey rebuilding this motor probably are not around anymore, but I can say today 2 years later I finally got it running again.
long and messy process combining a 420 and 500 motor
heres a update 
the no spark was because the 420 flywheel was skinnier than a 500 so I pulled motor and installed a new 500 flywheel. 
reinstalled engine and then it still wouldn't start. no fuel
so I pulled motor took off rear cover again to find the wires on my shift switch sensor (part no: 35759-hr0-f01) were frayed and damaged
then I took the 420 shift switch sensor and swapped them out
reinstalled engine, computer was saying it was in 5th gear when It actually was in Neutral but I held front brake and started it anyways. boom fired right up, but ran like ****, anytime you gave it gas it would bog down and die.
so then I ran a jumper wire from - battery post to light green wire with red tracer on the 8 prong grey connector on backside of motor. computer then read "n" fired up, ran fantastic
 so I pulled the motor for the 4th time now to find out the shift position sensors on a 500 and 420 look the same but they actually are not, the wires are in different positions.
as of right now the motors taken apart and current waiting for the new shift position sensor so I can get it running again. 3 days ago I was about 2 seconds away from ordering a whole new engine after installing if for the 3rd time and it still not run but here I am finally complete. just so everyone knows my run rear for my foreman was 11-13 making engines almost impossible to get ahold of, but you can make a 420 bottom end work with few modifications. 

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#58
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2017/05/02 18:46:29 (permalink)
Thanks for taking the time to post up your work.

At least going forward people will know what is needed to make it work without having to go through all the hassle you have.

Glad you got it running!
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Re: 420 bottom end swap on foreman 500 2017/05/02 19:54:28 (permalink)
Man that's awesome you never gave up and then you came back to let everyone know what you did!!!!! We need action picks now!!!!! Hahaha

00_NUTT
1997 Honda 300 4x4
Head Ported and Polished
317 Kit
Big Red Cam
Clutch Kit
SuperTrapp IDS2 Exhaust
K&N Filter
Carb Kit
32" Interco Interforce II's
16" MSA M30 Trottles
Snorkled 
54% gear reduction
Honda 350 rear axle assm.

6" BPC CUSTOM LIFT WITH 8" STRETCH AND 3" BODY LIFT OLD 300 LOOKING GOOD AS EVER THANKS TO WHITNEY!!!!!

SON'S BIKE
1998 Honda 300 2x4
6" BPC LIft with some sick a-arms
420 spindles and disk brakes
29.5" OL2'S
14" MSA M26 Vibes
 
Upcoming
4x4 Frame and Motor that's here now just got to get to work on the swap over!!!
54% Gear Reduction
 
#60
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